Introduction
Interviewer:	... And, so I guess we'll just start with ... you were saying that, people didn't want to live around here... ? [in the neighborhood where the Dodd's presently live]
Joseph Dodd:	... People did not want to live above Patrick Street.
Interviewer:	Okay.
Joseph Dodd:	Uh, at that time this ... it was a really tough place to live, I mean the two people that did live up here ... it was pretty rough. Didn't want to be caught up here at night.
Interviewer:	All right.
Joseph Dodd:	And there was just no development whatsoever here.
Carol Dodd:	It was a dump!
Joseph Dodd:	Yup.
Carol Dodd:	It was the railroad yards .... And where Laporta (?) is was Saint Tulio's (?)
Joseph Dodd:	Mmhm, it was a market.
Carol Dodd:	It was a market. It was an Italian market and as you said [referring to JOSEPH DODD] the only one that was open on Sunday. And they probably wouldn't be operating the way they did then, because you go in and they have the big barrels of, uh, pickles, and ... and stuff all in big barrels ... and probably won't meet health code today. [laughs] ... with prepackaging. But I ... I remember that from, I mean that did not close until the seventies, some time.

Childhood Home in Old Town
Interviewer:	[to JOSEPH DODD] Where did you live in Old Town Alexandria?
Joseph Dodd:	Two hundred block of South Royal.
Interviewer:	Okay ....
Joseph Dodd:	223. My sister lived in 225.
Interviewer:	Okay. So did you grow up there, or did you move there?
Joseph Dodd:	I was born there. Clara Dodd: You were born in the hospital, which is now where the, uh, Atrium is, off South Washington Street ... 277 South Washington Street was the hospital.
Interviewer:	Okay.
Carol Dodd:	And, uh, that did not get torn down until, uh, the seventies some time... when they built and relocated to ... in off Seminary Road.
Interviewer:	So was that a house then, or an apartment?
Carol Dodd:	[to JOSEPH DODD] What you were living in?
Joseph Dodd:	It was a house.
Interviewer:	A house, okay. So one of the smaller houses like you see here ...?
Joseph Dodd:	Uh . .
Carol Dodd:	Well, it was added to, if you ... if you read this ... this uh book [referring to a book "The Houses of South Royal Street"]. Um, it started out ... it can be a plaque house. And are you familiar with plaque houses?
Interviewer:	No.
Carol Dodd:	They were the ones ... there was a survey done in 1835 of all the dwellings in Alexandria, and if something was ... that existed, um, before 1835 you were entitled to put a plaque. If you walk in Old Town you will see them. And all that means is that that house existed before 1935. [I assume that the survey was actually done 1935, because the report she has was written 1982]. Um, in the case of 223 North Royal, it was a blacksmith's shop at one time in the late 1700s. And it was entitled ... the back part of the house was entitled to the plaque. But they built forwards, they built up, and then they built back beyond there. So it's really a hodge-podge of, um, places, you know, buildings. But it is, it was a row house. Considered row house now, townhouses are the, the word.
Interviewer:	Mmhm. Yeah, they're really pretty. [laughs]
Carol Dodd:	Yeah.
Joseph Dodd:	I was so thankful for my father. We were one of the only two people on that block that had cement sidewalks. And I was so grateful to my father, that he had cemented the (?) rather than brick, because I didn't have to mess with grass coming up between the bricks that you have to pull out.
Interviewer:	Aw yeah!
Joseph Dodd:	And that was a nasty job. [Clara laughing] And I was so grateful as I teenager. I could be at a movie or doing something with your friends, but not out here... Didn't like that work. (?)

School and Segregation
Interviewer:	Where did you go to school?
Joseph Dodd:	G.W.
Interviewer:	G.W., was that your-
Joseph Dodd:	Uh, you know where the-where there's a-
Carol Dodd:	Your elementary school, you went to Washington Street School where the Campagna Center is now. It's in the four hundred block of South Washington Street. And, um, we have pictures of you, of where that school ... and then you went to-
Joseph Dodd:	(?) It's on West Street Unit Red(?) ... Thomas ...
Carol Dodd:	... Jefferson
Joseph Dodd:	Jefferson and Jefferson Avenue. It was two different schools, but it was on the same-
Carol Dodd:	It's where the Jefferson-Houston School now is. It's the north-west corner of West and Cameron Street. And that's where he went through .... In Joseph's year it was the first year in the City of Alexandria schools that they added eighth grade. Previously, you go to seventh grade and then to high school. But in your year [to Joseph] they added eighth grade.
Joseph Dodd:	Not willingly! [All laugh]
Carol Dodd:	And then you went to high school, at what-GW High School, which is now George Washington Middle School. And that's on Mount Vernon Avenue and Braddock.
Interviewer:	Why didn't they want to add an eighth grade there?
Carol Dodd:	Uh, I don't know what the history of, for the city, why it wasn't until nineteen... the late 1940s. I guess maybe, for whatever... and maybe there were many other jurisdictions that didn't have eighth grade. And the other thing is, he never went to an integrated school, in Alexandria, even though there were people of color ...
Joseph Dodd:	The kids didn't care. We played baseball. We went a couple blocks on the Burg (?) Sure, you could play baseball, this, that and the other thing. They'd come up, and we'd go down there, and this and that. And we used to joke about it. You know. If you look at D.C. with your friends, you would get on a bus, and you would sit in the front of the bus, they'd have to sit in the back of the bus. But once we got in D.C., we could do whatever we wanted to, and once we got back in Alexandria, and on the bus you could do whatever you wanted to. You just couldn't go to the ... movies, and this and that and the other. Carbur (?) Theater, I think, it used to be on ... it was on Queen Street, I think it's a tavern now or shopping like that.
Interviewer:	So then there were different theaters for whites and blacks, or different entrances..?
Joseph Dodd:	I think it was just the theaters. As I was saying ... one thing ... if I wanted to go with like, Leroy, ... a friend of mine for many years, I could go with him, he couldn't go with me... . We could never quite figure that out!
Interviewer:	So, other than, you know, in school and so, it was just ...pretty much just like it is now? ... That's really interesting. I've also read, you know, interviews where other people have said, "Oh, we just accepted it."
Joseph Dodd:	The funny thing about it is when we had the reunion [High school reunion, September 20th, 2003] so many of us showed up, and the funny thing ... again it's a different era ... just about everyone there after college this that and the other thing ... married the girl they dated in high school.
Carol Dodd:	You didn't!
Joseph Dodd:	No, I didn't. But, just about everyone did.

After School Activities
Interviewer:	Okay. Um, so what did you usually do after school? When you came back from school?
Joseph Dodd:	Played ball....
Interviewer:	... .Okay.
Carol Dodd:	He played baseball-
Joseph Dodd:	But you could play at that time in the streets. Nobody was going to bother you a whole bunch. And you had a lot down on ...Lee Street, uh, and Queen Street, where they ... it used to be a millwork there ... on that ground. And there used to be a fertilizer plant on Union Street, going down that way. And we could play there. It was a small, little ground... . . But that was fine.
Carol Dodd:	About that fertilizer plant. Joseph's mother had to take ... and it wasn't just she, everybody living in Old Town [Alexandria]. Old Town wasn't what it is today. She had to take like a razor, a putty knife and scrape this yellow stuff-film-off the windows, because the fertilizer plant put out this awful yellow stuff.
Interviewer:	Oh my gosh. Did that ... I wonder if you know, did that cause any problems .... with asthma and stuff like that
Joseph Dodd:	Nothing like that .... I don't know. I just don't know.
Carol Dodd:	I don't think a study like that has ever been done-"What was the effect of living close to the fertilizer plant?"
Joseph Dodd:	Just about everyone that I ... you know, I'd still see people at school with ... so, I think we all knew each other well.
Carol Dodd:	But whether there was cancer, you know, later on .... They don't know what's in the water anyway.
Interviewer:	[To Joseph Dodd] What did you do after you finished school then?
Joseph Dodd:	Navy
Interviewer:	Navy, okay. You were there for how many years?
Joseph Dodd:	Seven.
Interviewer:	Seven years.
Joseph Dodd:	And from there I ... I sold shoes for (??)
Interviewer:	And ... was that here in Alexandria, or ...?
Joseph Dodd:	I didn't sell the shoes in Alexandria, I sold in District [of Columbia].
Interviewer:	What made you decide to come back here?
Joseph Dodd:	Uh, I think just ... was in Fairfax County ...(???) ... and uh, by that time my [first] wife and I separated, and eventually we were divorced and uh, I wanted to be back in Alexandria where I knew people.
Carol Dodd:	But, coming back from the Navy, you wanted to come back home. I mean, you had your brothers-
Joseph Dodd:	Yeah. And you know ... and still I thought everybody was going to be here, and like it was when I was in high school, and it wasn't. It didn't work out that way.
Carol Dodd:	[To Clara, the interviewer] It would have been great for you to talk to one brother of his, but I understand he would be very reluctant to talk to anybody. It's not his thing. But his next oldest brother, who's nine years older, Alvin Dodd, otherwise called "Oh Boy", was a policeman for the City of Alexandria. And knew, like, everybody. He was a motorcycle cop for a while. And he probably has stories that are incredible about, you know, that time of Alexandria.

Family and Community
Joseph Dodd:	But Oh Boy's closed-mouthed about everything.
Carol Dodd:	But he told you how he used to, you know, pick up teachers.
Joseph Dodd:	At that time it wasn't only ... police that were on duty at like eight to four. Most of the teachers lived in Del-Ray or Rosemont. And the police would go 'round if it was bad weather or something, pick 'em up, real cold, and bring 'em on up over to G.W. and, you know, drop 'em off. It was just one of the things that you did. You were expected to do it, so you did.
Interviewer:	So the police then didn't have that much to do around here?
Joseph Dodd:	Uh, it was just a small community.
Carol Dodd:	Well, like we were talking about. Old Town was not the place to live. I mean that was ... it was like the wrong side of the tracks. Um, you wanted to live in Del-Ray-
Joseph Dodd:	I wanted to live in Del-Ray or Rosemont, 'cause that's where all my friends ...
Carol Dodd:	-or Rosemont, because that's where everybody, you know, lived. And of course, Del-Ray went down and now it's come back. It's gone ... . A lot of the City of Alexandria-downtown, Old Town-is due to Charles Beatley, who the Beatley Library is named after. He managed to get a lot of grants from various federal governments and, uh, sort of made-over the downtown, Old Town. And that's why a lot of the people were attracted back.
Joseph Dodd:	And the price was right. It was a lot of, I think, Kennedy people. And that's, I don't know-
Carol Dodd:	Yeah, Kennedy staffers. They say Kennedy staffers who couldn't afford Georgetown, so they came over here to Alexandria.
Interviewer:	[to Joseph Dodd] How many brothers and sisters did you say you ... you said you had a sister and two brothers?
Carol Dodd:	You had a sister, who was twenty-some years older than you are. Joseph is what ... is called a 'love child'. He came on right .... You had Oh-Boy above you, then you had Malcolm, two years before that, and then there was a son that died, and then there was Edward, and then another son that died.
Joseph Dodd:	Ed was the oldest.
Carol Dodd:	No, Sis was older than Ed.
Joseph Dodd:	Okay, but Sis was before Malcolm.
Carol Dodd:	Right, oh yeah. That's what I was saying. Going backwards ... Alvin [aka "Oh-Boy", Malcolm, Forrest-who died as a ten year old, and then Edward, Herbert-who died at birth, and then your sister.
Interviewer:	And that's then going up in age?
Carol Dodd:	Yeah. Right. So in fact it does say in this book-
Joseph Dodd:	At that time, my father had a farm in Franconia. And ... these things happened to the older ... brothers and so forth, and uh, my mother just didn't want to be there any more.
Carol Dodd:	And that's where Forrest died. On the farm. In an accident.
Joseph Dodd:	And they just didn't want to be there anymore, so they moved to Alexandria.
Interviewer:	So did your father stay in Franconia, and he worked there, or they both came-?
Joseph Dodd:	He hauled for Smoot's. He was a truck driver for Smoot's.
Carol Dodd:	It's still in existence today as a hardware store.
Joseph Dodd:	And they do a little bit with lumber, but mostly hardware.
Carol Dodd:	It's out on, uh, Hope. I dunno [don't know]. Way out there. I know how to get to it, but I ...
Joseph Dodd:	Yeah, not one of the places I go to all the time.
Carol Dodd:	... It's beyond Landmark.
Interviewer:	[To Joseph Dodd] Did your mother do anything, or did she just stay at home and ...?
Joseph Dodd:	Well, she worked at the Five and Dime store. At that time it was Murphy's on the six hundred block of King (?)/ Payne (?) Street. You had three there. You had Murphy's, which was really a big end... at that time you had, they were coming out of the Depression, and some of the stores were being built, and coming out of the Depression they wanted to earn money... .(?) was a long way out there. And so my mother, soon as I started school, went to work at Murphy's, because where I attended school was on Washington Street, was about two blocks down from Murphy's and I had to cut through Murphy's, so my mother could see me ... and then I'd go on home. But when I'd hit Cameron and Royal Street all of the mothers and grandmothers would be out on the doorsteps, because the kids would be coming home. And they would look at their watch and look at you going across the street... and you couldn't do anything. I had twenty mothers. We all did.
Interviewer:	So there was no way of playing hooky?
Carol Dodd:	Tell what your dad did when you started going to the Jefferson-Houston.
Joseph Dodd:	Oh, that was ...
Interviewer:	Was that high school?
Carol Dodd:	No, this was middle school.
Joseph Dodd:	And, uh, everybody knew my father, as I mentioned. And Dad was taking me out, when I had to go up there. It was all ... African-American at that point. And my dad knew everyone, as I said, and everybody liked my dad, and he would knock on doors, all the way up to West Street, going one way, and coming down this way, it would be the other side of the street, and told everyone that "This is my son." And they were sort of, "He's such a baby". And I was, "Yeah, blah, blah, blah." And I wasn't ready for that. Anyhow, they told me, they warned me, they said, "You better not stay around playing up here 'cause we're going to make sure you get home." And that was the end of the conversation, so I couldn't do anything.
Interviewer:	Why did he take you there and show you around?
Joseph Dodd:	Uh ...
Carol Dodd:	Devilish, Joseph was.
Joseph Dodd:	Yes, uh, I'm not going to get in to that!
Interviewer:	Um, so your dad being a truck driver, was he gone a lot then, or?
Joseph Dodd:	Uh, no, it was just the lumber and coal, at that time.
Carol Dodd:	Smoots at the time was up where to coal plant is if you went out North Fairfax and North Royal Street there's that big coal pile where the, uh, plant ... power plant ... that's where Smoots was.
Joseph Dodd:	Well it wasn't quite that far.
Carol Dodd:	But, it's out that ...
Joseph Dodd:	It's in that area up there.
Interviewer:	Uh, are they any other particular stories you have?
Carol Dodd:	[to Joseph Dodd] Well, you've told me so many throughout the years, so many. But, uh, one of them was, again we were talking about Saint Tulio's, how, the way they sold groceries would not be ... would not pass the health code today. Craigen's is a-
Joseph Dodd:	Craigen's Drugstore was ... now they had something wrong there. Craigen's Drugstore, they had like on Pitt Street or something like that, the way I was ...
Carol Dodd:	[To Clara] That list that we gave you, that's why I say there are a few mistakes on that ...
Joseph Dodd:	And Craigen's Drugstore was on the corner of Royal and King. And at that time again, it was a different ballgame.... But at that time Craigen's Drugstore, and you had separate ones up on Washington Street, I think, and Woolfields (?) I think was on Pitt Street and ... that area. But Craigen's at that time, again, the difference in ... if we banged up, say playing ball or what have you, where your parents weren't home, you could go up to Craigen's Drugstore and they'd patch you up! They'd put bandages on you, and fix this, and fix that and send you back home, and Dad or someone would come up and pay them. But the point I was trying to make-can you imagine anybody doing that now with all the ... the lawsuits.
Interviewer:	Not at all.
Joseph Dodd:	These people would be hurting (?)! I mean nobody could afford ... That's just a different situation.
Interviewer:	That's amazing.
Carol Dodd:	And another thing was, when your father at Christmas time, he took you to a store and you picked out-
Joseph Dodd:	That was ...I'm trying to think. It's an old family name that was....
Carol Dodd:	He'd pick out-
Joseph Dodd:	He'd pick out the toys for me, half the time I didn't know he was choosing for me. 'Course anyhow, he would-it ... that to me was like going to, right where the Washington and King Street, up in that area, it was. Maybe where the McDonald's was, or something like that. It was two stories, and ....

Movie Theaters
Interviewer:	Oh, I see. Wonder about that theater. I was wondering about. It's also close to there.
Joseph Dodd:	On the six hundred block? That was Ingomar.
Interviewer:	Okay. Was that there when you were growing up?
Joseph Dodd:	Yes. That's where kids could see all the Westerns they wanted to see on Saturday and Sunday and ten cartoons, and this and that, and you went back home. And the-two blocks above that-on, I guess it's the eight hundred block of-
Carol Dodd:	Which still exists, that Old Town theater.
Joseph Dodd:	Yeah, that was, uh, Richmond.
Interviewer:	Okay, so that's a different name than from what it is now.
Joseph Dodd:	Yeah, to me I think it had a balcony to it.
Carol Dodd:	It did. It does now.
Joseph Dodd:	Does it now? I bet it had one then. That's ...
Interviewer:	Inside you mean?
Joseph Dodd:	Yeah. And then up at, where your [Carol Dodd's] firm used to be-
Carol Dodd:	Right. In the seventeen hundred block of King Street there was the Reed Theater. And then where the Old Colony, oh well now it's ... whatever hotel ... with the Giant and ABC store. They're putting in condos next to the hotel. The Virginia Theater-
Joseph Dodd:	-Between Fairfax and uh ... Royal Street.
Carol Dodd:	On Montgomery. No, it was beyond Montgomery. It's, I guess, First Street .... The Virginia Theater actually had an organ. Now that didn't close until the seventies. But you ... a person would play the organ with the movies you know. Wasn't always silent movies, I mean silent movies....
Interviewer:	And they would just play it at regular movies?
Joseph Dodd:	It was a movie theater that played better movies than the rest of them. And all the kids that went to school in, you know, Alexandria would go to that theater, or either the Reed Theater.
Carol Dodd:	Tell her how you earned your money for the theaters. What I'm thinking of ...
Joseph Dodd:	Oh, yeah, the city market.
Carol Dodd:	The city market. Have you ever been to the Old Town market from what ... 5:30 to 10 o'clock on Saturday mornings?
Interviewer:	Um, yeah I caught it once, about the last thirty minutes that they had it there.
Joseph Dodd:	Well, that's where I used to take my wagon up on Saturday mornings. 'Cause everybody would be up there and I would ... they would put their groceries in the wagon, and I would ...
Carol Dodd:	Take it home and get money and then you say as soon as you made enough money ...
Joseph Dodd:	... enough money to go to the movies that was it! But you had a Sanitary too on the corner of ... it's where John has his studio.
Carol Dodd:	Upstairs. It's on Prince, Royal. There's an antique store below and an art gallery above.
Joseph Dodd:	And I believe in the back of the antique store ... I think that was the armory where they had the ... whomever it was that marched (?) and did things at that time.

City Market
Interviewer:	About that market, was that also just the same-you could buy your fruits and vegetables and stuff like that?
Carol Dodd:	And live animals.
Interviewer:	Live animals! What sort of animals?
Joseph Dodd:	Just, I think, pigs, and stuff like that. It didn't last too long ...
Carol Dodd:	Health code probably got after you!
Interviewer:	So about what time did they have it there from? Do you know?
Joseph Dodd:	It was very early in the morning ...
Carol Dodd:	Well, it supposedly is the oldest continuing market going back into the seventeen hundreds, when Washington was there.
Joseph Dodd:	But things started like seven o'clock in the morning and they would have old stoves, and this, and that, the other thing and finish, probably at eleven o'clock.
Carol Dodd:	It's pretty much the hours ... it's not as early as it is today, but all the live animals. And they were slaughtered ...
Joseph Dodd:	Chickens and stuff like that.
Interviewer:	The chickens were slaughtered right there?
Carol Dodd:	Yes. The chicken ...
Joseph Dodd:	And I still don't eat chicken.
Interviewer:	I can imagine, after that!
Joseph Dodd:	It was pretty much a semi-rural southern town. But across from 223 you had apartment houses. And it was all this [sic] family homes.
Interviewer:	What was the market like in the winter? Did they still have it there then?
Joseph Dodd:	They did, yes, I'm pretty sure they did. I wouldn't go, but I didn't do that. I think my brothers went and probably were ..., but yeah it was as it continues. Now you just have ... it's still good, but it's so much ....
Carol Dodd:	Well, not as many vendors come out in the wintertime, there's only a few hardened people that come out. But they still have it every Saturday morning.
Interviewer:	Yeah, I'm surprised people come out at 5:30!
Carol Dodd:	Not us!

Christmas
Interviewer:	Uh, I guess the last question that would be interesting is what was it like at Christmas?
Joseph Dodd:	Nights was [sic] fantastic 'cause they had ... up on the second floor was stories. And you didn't have toy shops that just had toys, now it was the lumber. Toys on the other thing. And then across the street, as I said, you had Murphy's, Kresge's, and Woolworth's. That was three department stores on the six hundred block of King Street.
Interviewer:	Okay. So ...
Joseph Dodd:	Murphy's I think is where they just trade in hardware now, and then the other two were pretty much next to it. (?) employed a lot of people at that time. And in coming out of the Depression, you know, people went there for jobs.

Family Background
Interviewer:	What year were you born?
Carol Dodd:	[To Joseph Dodd] You were born [19]35.
Interviewer:	'35, okay. So that was then ... um, what was it like during the war?
Joseph Dodd:	There weren't too many cars on the road! It just ... they used to put little flags on the window of the guys that were in service and they had, some, I think, were stars for, that meant ... the guy wasn't coming home. And it ... that was quite (?) I ... to me it seems like most the guys I knew in my brother's age, went in the Navy, for whatever reason. And then when you got to my generation, it seemed like the guys that were in high school most of us were in the Navy. I guess we were just mimicking your older brother or ....
Carol Dodd:	Well, you know being on a seaport, you know, probably had it in your blood. Your dad's side of the family are Scotsmen, and they came over here down to the Northern Neck, and they worked their way up. And then on your mother's side, they came from (?). Your grandfather was the English schoolteacher from England. And your grandmother was Native American. Full-blooded Native American.
Interviewer:	So, when did they move here? You said that they'd moved here from Franconia ...?
Carol Dodd:	Yeah ... . in 1929? Yeah, on May 11th, 1929 they ... it went ... the house went up for public auction. And his dad bought it. So, it was 1929.

Church and Good Places for Dinner
Interviewer:	Um, well, I'm not sure I've anything else. What about church and so?
Joseph Dodd:	That was another one. My brothers and sisters went to the Baptist Church. My mother was high church Episcopalian ... I went to either St. Paul's or Christ Church.
Interviewer:	So, that depended on ...?
Carol Dodd:	What your mother said, that the love child, the last one, she was going to get ... for religion.
Joseph Dodd:	And I was it. All the rest of my brothers were...most of them were Baptist really, I would say nothing, but most of them, Baptist. But I was only a baby, to put it the other way.
Interviewer:	Oh, so your dad took the rest of your brothers and sisters and your mom took you ...? I see.
Joseph Dodd:	That's what my sister told me. I really don't remember too much about it. And I never argued with my sister. That's enough. You never argue with her ... you don't loose any (?)
Interviewer:	Did she sometimes take care of you then, or so?
Joseph Dodd:	Well, her house ... she and her husband and my niece and nephew lived in the house next door to us at 225 North Royal Street and so I couldn't really get in too much trouble 'cause my sister was always making sure I didn't get into any trouble. And she didn't want to see me outside during the hot sunshine. She wanted me in on the porch or she wanted me in the house reading or something, and she would check on me, so uh ....
Carol Dodd:	And then the other thing is, you tell the story about how you would check to see what your mother was serving and then go check and see what your sister ....
Joseph Dodd:	When Mom had something that I didn't like I would go to my sister. The other thing I would go to now, ...(?) hitting up a few of my friends' houses that was either across the street or around on Queen, 'cause they would invite me in. Yeah, that's where I would eat!
Carol Dodd:	He says as far as cooking, his mother tried hard.
Joseph Dodd:	Daddy (?) thought it was the greatest, and Dad thought it was the greatest, that's all that mattered.

The War and Change in Store Hours
Interviewer:	So, did she usually work late, then or what time...? You said she worked at the Five and Dime store ....
Joseph Dodd:	Well I didn't. My mother worked. Oh! At that time there was a certain thing .... At that time nothing was open on Sunday, for one thing. And everything closed up at six o'clock I think, except after the War, I think someone started opening until nine, but usually, to my ... the way I remember it not too many places were open beyond six o'clock. And the torpedo plant was shift work. I guess the War changed things, and then they started lengthening the hours.
Carol Dodd:	Well, I know that, judging from what Joseph has told me, you know, lots more stories and what I've heard from his family, high school friends, and what, I picture Old Town as a slightly large rural, like the county seat of a county in Ohio, or Indiana. You know it's somewhat rural ... it's got a few stores, and what have you and life was somewhat idyllic, except that you had to scrape the fertilizer off ...your windows. It wasn't perfect, but you had a freedom that kids today don't. I mean you just went and played baseball down a couple ...down the street.

Dating
Joseph Dodd:	We always went somewhere in a group. It was either the movies or ball field or this, that. And by group I'm not talking about ten or eleven, usually two or three friends, and this, that and the other. 'Course occasionally we saw some other people at the movie theater and at that time again and going to high school, if you dated a girl through high school, when you were graduated, as I say, it was a pretty southern town. I'm not saying the majority, but many were expected to marry. It's just that simple. And ... the fathers let you know that, too!
Interviewer:	Your father, or the girl's father?
Joseph Dodd:	No, the girl's father.
Interviewer:	Did that also happen to you? Did you date somebody through high school that you were expected to marry?
Carol Dodd:	[Yes] But you didn't marry. He joined the Navy. He got away. Got out of that thing right.
Joseph Dodd:	Everybody was pretty ... we liked each other, that's the best thing I can tell you. The reunion we, that Carol was talking about, we were looking around and so many married their high school sweethearts. We just simply liked each other. We liked being around each other the whole thing. And the group that was together were pretty much the group that was extended into Del-Ray and Rosemont and what have you. But some drove a fair distance to come back here. And of course we did like each other, we liked being around each other and the whole bit, so why did we have to go anywhere else?
Carol Dodd:	You joined the Navy, saw the War, and came back home!

Helen Goyen Jewel
Interviewer:	Is there maybe anybody else, of the people that you ... at your high school reunion that I could maybe talk to some time, do you think?
Joseph Dodd:	No.
Carol Dodd:	Um, well there's probably, I would think if you ... there is a ... and I don't know ... I think there's even a website: George Washington Alumni Association. And if you go into that, you have the classes and there's like a class, I wouldn't say president, but someone whose sort, I dunno [don't know], sort of in charge of the alumni class. And if you ... or you go to ... I guess that's GW ... I don't know who holds the school records but there are. I'm sure that if you go to the website and you get names, you can call them up. To think of a name ... Helen Goyen?
Joseph Dodd:	Uh, yeah, probably she would know something.
Carol Dodd:	She lives out in Fairfax.
Interviewer:	[To Joseph Dodd] What year were you?
Carol Dodd:	She was [19]53. You were 53.
Joseph Dodd:	I think it's in the ... [Memory Book]. She became ... Helen was always the brightest kid in the class and (?), definitely a nice person, she looked after everybody and she became a schoolteacher and taught in the Alexandria.
Interviewer:	Oh, okay! That would be interesting to find out.
Joseph Dodd:	Yeah, and she was just a nice person. I was only 4' 8" when I started high school and sometimes the older guys tried to pick on me. And I would have ...it was funny, it wasn't guys that would come up and protect me, but the girls, the senior girls would come up and protect me. You know, would make sure that nobody did anything to me that they shouldn't be doing.
Interviewer:	How old did you say you were then?
Joseph Dodd:	When I started high school? Uh, twelve. But I was only 4'8", I was really small. That's the reason that ... and we had been together, all played together throughout elementary school, and this that and the other. And there was a bonding that, you know, like they would ... your parents (?) would stalk you across the street. She wouldn't let anyone near me!
Carol Dodd:	You know, another one, as you know, State Senator Patsy Ticer was born here, and the class, and of course Willard Scott, was two years ahead of you. I dunno [dpn't know], I have here, this is what we got when we had the reunion. And they got some of these, pictures and something about it. What's Helen's last name right now? See, they took some pictures out of the yearbook.
Interviewer:	Do you still have your yearbook?
Carol Dodd:	No, unfortunately not. I wish we did. Because it would be fun to .... Oh here, [Deleted, writing down Helen Goyen Jewel's address and phone number]
Joseph Dodd:	She was very bright and always, again, one of the nicest people you'd ever wanna [want to] meet... . She retired from G.W. I believe. Deleted, again, writing down address]
Carol Dodd:	And what's funny to read about these things are, you know, reflections on the past twenty years. Hot Shoppes was ... that's where you-
Joseph Dodd:	That's where you took your girl out. And it had the whole, you know, speakers and you called in, people would come out with trays and put em on.
Interviewer:	So you went up to that speaker and-
Joseph Dodd:	No, you drove and ... that's where you went with your girl after taking her probably to a Saturday night movie and that's where you'd see all your friends, and this, that, and the other thing and you talk, talk, talk-like you hadn't seen each other for months. [Not included upon request]

Teachers
Joseph Dodd:	Mr. Lindsey, who was in there [referring to the "Memory Book"] taught trig.
Interviewer:	He became a teacher?
Joseph Dodd:	No, he was a teacher. But the ... he taught trigonometry in high school. But the funny thing about him was he grew up with my father. He didn't know my father that well, but my dad knew him. And this ...but he was always the smartest in school. And ... if your going to teach trig you're pretty much going to be the smartest kid in school. At that time especially. [Deleted-leafing through the "Memory Book"] The thing that was funny, if you behaved in the class .... [Deleted, leafing] One of the strangleholds that the teacher would have, male teacher would be if you started [mis]behaving in class, and I know two that did that, he would simply look at you and say "Are you taking Joyce to the movies this Friday night or to the ballgame this Friday night?" And I'd say "Yes.", 'cause it'd be their daughter and I'd say ... I think he'd say, "Well, then be quiet and LISTEN TO ME!!" And that was a form of bribery. Wanna [Want to] take out my daughter, you'd better not act up in class.
Interviewer:	So, were there a lot of the teachers had their sons and daughters.
Joseph Dodd:	No, a few. But I can still go down to Oak Street, I know where Joyce lived ... 108 and Carol lived at 60 (?) Street.
Carol Dodd:	His other Carol.