Introductions

Growing Up in Rural Virginia

Education

Post-College Education

Alexandria Schools and Desegregation

Daughter Wins Alexandria School Board Election

Gilbert's Army Experience

End of Interview

Introductions
Dave Cavanaugh:	This is July 11.
Gilbert Mays:	Do we have to get closer to you?
DC:	I hope not. I have it up very loud. I'll ask a series of questions that you can elaborate on your own individual lives and experiences. I do have some questions we can ask to get started off.
DC:	Could you state your full names?
Maudy Mays:	My full name is Maudy M-A-U-D-Y Walker Mays. Walker is my maiden name.
DC:	Walker is your maiden name.
Gilbert Mays:	I am Gilbert Mays.
DC:	Gilbert Mays. And you were saying how old you were, Gilbert? What is your age?
Gilbert Mays:	Now?
DC:	Yes.
Gilbert Mays:	I am 86.
Maudy Mays:	I am 86.
DC:	And also 86 years old. Just wonderful.

Growing Up in Rural Virginia
DC:	Where did you grow up?
Maudy Mays:	In a small place outside of Lawrenceville [Virginia]. It is a rural area. Lawrenceville, Virginia is the mail address. But Edgerton, Virginia is where I was born and reared. E-D-G-E-R-T-O-N [Virginia].
DC:	It is in southern Virginia?
Maudy Mays:	Yes indeed. Yes it is. Southside we call it.
DC:	Yea. Southside. And Gilbert?
Gilbert Mays:	I was also in Southside, Virginia. A little village post office called Dauphin, Virginia, D-A-U-P-H-I-N, Virginia. Oh I guess about 10 miles north of Lawrenceville. Maudy's folks lived 5 miles east of Lawrenceville.
Maudy Mays:	Yes.
DC:	How did you all meet?
Maudy Mays:	In school. We met in high school. High school and church. His mother was a member of my church. And so, my father's church I guess I would say. And that's where we met.
DC:	And what did your folks do?
Maudy Mays:	They were farmers. All farmers. [Both talking at the same time] Tobacco, cotton, corn, peanuts. This is my father. Sugar cane, you name it. Sow beans, hay, lespedeza, clover, whatever. He had a big, big farm. And his name was Benjamin Wert [??]. We called him Benjamin "work." [Laughter]
DC:	Because he worked a lot.
Maudy Mays:	We had to work. We did. But we had everything we needed on the farm except sugar. But we had molasses, and everything you could name. The pepper. We didn't have salt and sugar.
DC:	How many acres did you have?
Gilbert Mays:	140 acres.
Maudy Mays:	Gosh. No, it was 200 and some because see he had the farm down near Wilson Chappen [??]. Then he had the farm at the old place and the one where we lived.
DC:	Is the property still in the family?
Maudy Mays:	A very small portion of mine and I gave my portion to my daughter. Recently. Yes. The house place.
Gilbert Mays:	First cousin [inaudible]...
Maudy Mays:	Yes, Right. You're right. My cousin purchased it. The family [inaudible] didn't want a portion; they wanted money. And so they just interceded and called for money and we had to sell it.
DC:	Do you any longer have family reunions on the farm or anything like that?
Maudy Mays:	Not on the farm. There is no farm there, as such. But we do have family reunions on my father's side and on—what is it?—my uncle's wife's side. We meet that way.
DC:	And, Gil ,your folks were also farmers?
Gilbert Mays:	Yea they were farmers. We were smaller, smaller than Maudy's. Tobacco farmers.
DC:	And that was back in the '20s and '30s?
Gilbert Mays:	'20s. Yea.
DC:	So that was very remote?
Maudy Mays:	1919
Gilbert Mays:	I was born 1910. A few [inaudible]
DC:	Were they large families?
Maudy Mays:	16 in my family.
DC:	16?
Maudy Mays:	16 children. We had good times. My mother could really, really cook. She could prepare some good, good food. And so even though we worked hard in the fields, we came to that house knowing we were going to have some goodies to eat. And she filled that [inaudible] always had some desserts. We really had a good time on the farm. There were some tough days, though. Yea. And we had to walk to school. Always walk to school. No buses for us, but buses for the white children.

Education
DC:	Buses for the white children. How far did you have to walk to school?
Maudy Mays:	It was about three miles or three and half miles. Yea.
DC:	How about you, Gil?
Gilbert Mays:	Four. Four and half miles when I first started school, [??] grade. Later on we moved closer to the school, two and half miles. But we had to walk to school. We had no transportation. Like Maudy said, the white kids had transportation... While we are on the schools, why don't we just talk about the high school so you can see how things went? Now, of course we had to walk to elementary school. And going to high school we still had to furnish our way to school. And we both went to St. Paul's. It was called the Normal and Industrial School, then it was St. Paul College. And I being about 10 miles from there and Maudy about five, we had to furnish our own way to school, pay tuition although it was a "semi-public" school, but it was not public it was private. And that is where we went for elementary school and high school. No high school for blacks in Brunswick County. Just for whites. Transportation for whites. No transportation for blacks. So we had to pay for our transportation. First of all, we went in individual cars. And then we had several prominent farmers in the area bought buses. We used to go on those buses, and we had to pay for the buses. No free transportation for blacks.
DC:	...the community must have thought education was important.
Gilbert Mays:	Yea.
DC:	And they supported it.
Maudy Mays:	Yes, Yes they did. And let me revert back to something Gilbert said. To start with, there was no high school for black children. A man, I don't know how he got into this, but he found out about no black high school for black children. He came from New York to that Southside area. He didn't stay. He kept traveling back to New York and back to the area. And he pulled together some prominent people, black people in the area, and they talked out the situation, I never did get into the bottom of it, but my father did, but he didn't talk about it. He didn't tell us, because I think there were some things they were keeping to themselves, so that they could get this project going. The project was to get these outstanding black people in the community, the whole county, Brunswick County, to purchase buses to transport the black children, and St. Paul's College pulled together and decided to set aside facilities there for a high school. And that is how we got here.
DC:	What year approximately was that?
Maudy Mays:	That was '33 (1933)
Gilbert Mays:	That was '33—my first year at St. Paul's.
Maudy Mays:	That was the year I think.
Gilbert Mays:	I went to the ninth grade, seventh to ninth grade. I took the exam to get in there. I took an exam to get into the eighth grade, Ninth grade, that is when I started. Maudy I think you started in '35 (1935).
Maudy Mays:	Yes.
Gilbert Mays:	But this man that she is speaking about got some money and stuff together to help these kids go to school, gave money to St. Paul Normal and Industrial School to run the high school. We could get no money from the county, no money from the state, in the beginning. And that is how we all went to high school.
Maudy Mays:	And I feel that St. Paul is a blessing to us and so we make contribution to the school each year on a [in audible] day.
Gilbert Mays:	Tenth of July
Maudy Mays:	So blessed.
DC:	So it is still there?
Maudy Mays:	Yes. Yes it is there. But they are still struggling.
Gilbert Mays:	But I guess you are familiar with the elementary school, the black elementary schools. They were all built because of the Rosenwald Fund. You remember Rosenwald? The people from the New York, New York, area gave money to build elementary schools in the South. The school that I went to and the school Maudy went to were built with those Rosenwald funds. Our school was a four-room school. I think yours was a two-room school.
Maudy Mays:	Two rooms.
Gilbert Mays:	We had grades—primary to seventh grade.
Maudy Mays:	Seventh grade.
DC:	How many kids would be in that class?
Gilbert Mays:	That all depends [in audible]... One teacher had to have two grades in high school.
Maudy Mays:	And one teacher in the school that I attended had four.
Gilbert Mays:	Primary and first grade in one room, second and third in one room, fourth and fifth in one room, sixth and seventh.
DC:	Wow.
Gilbert Mays:	Maudy only had two rooms in her school.
Maudy Mays:	And I taught in a two-room school. I had four grades when I first got started.
DC:	Where was that?
Maudy Mays:	That's in Brunswick County, but Rawlins, Virginia. Yes. Four grades, but I had the total cooperation of the parents. I really did. They were wonderful. No discipline problems at all. With the exception of one parent who came to the door and was kinda spiked up and high—he had a drink or two, and he wanted me to stand there at the side door and talk to him and I told him I had children to take care of, including his two. And so, I got away from that door.
DC:	[Laughter]
Maudy Mays:	But it was a blessing. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed it very, very much. And then my next teaching experience was in Richmond, Virginia. We moved when he got a job with the State Department of Education.
DC:	For the State of Virginia?
Maudy Mays:	Yes. That was a nice experience for him.
Gilbert Mays:	And that was after I was out of the Army went back to St. Paul's to get my degree and started working at James [in audible] High School.
Maudy Mays:	Speak up.
Gilbert Mays:	And lucky for me, I got a fellowship at the University of Virginia in 1957, during the Little Rock situation. Remember the Russians put up the Sputnik and the U.S. government put up some money for science education? That was my area, science. And I then went to the University of Virginia. Two blacks in that class.

Post-College Education
DC:	That was 1957?
Gilbert Mays:	And I got my Master's degree in 1958. In May 58 I was called to Richmond to work with the Virginia State Department of Education. You know—to talk science and stuff at black high schools.
DC:	This was at time when the State was not willing to desegregate the Virginia schools?
Gilbert Mays:	O yes. A little after that. That had happened when I was at the University of Virginia. You didn't go to the University of Virginia if you were black, that day. In my work, my work was supposed to be confined to black high schools. Stuff happened later on. It was decided to integrate the school situation. I'll tell you what—it wasn't too hot down in Richmond. That's why we came to Alexandria. The pay was much higher up here. And so I quit my job down there. [Inaudible]
DC:	And you taught when you lived in Richmond?
Maudy Mays:	Yes I did. And my work was in the City schools. The schools were segregated then. And then from Richmond here.

Alexandria Schools and Desegregation
DC:	Were they segregated here (Alexandria) when you came? You came here in 1970?
Gilbert Mays:	They were trying to break it here. You had your black elementary school, your black junior high school, and your black high school. Of course the junior high and high school were all in one building for blacks. When we came in 1970, Parker-Gray was a school for blacks.
Maudy Mays:	Yes.
Gilbert Mays:	During that time—the year after we came here—they merged three middle schools, Parker Gray, John Adams, and Minnie Howard. My first year here I worked as the Assistant Principal at T.C. Williams. The second year here I was made principal at Minnie Howard Middle School. That was when [inaudible]. Then I went back to T.C. Williams as the Associate Principal and that is where I retired.
Maudy Mays:	Gilbert's first year at T.C., they thought things to explode.
DC:	Oh. Why?
Gilbert Mays:	They integrated T.C. Williams with black and white kids together. It was a little rough then.
Maudy Mays:	One family put the message out they never open. That they and their family were going to explode. But they didn't show up.
DC:	And what year was that?
Gilbert Mays:	1970.
Maudy Mays:	Uh-huh.
DC:	That is not that long ago.
Maudy Mays:	Right, right. It was kind a tough.
Gilbert Mays:	In 1971, I am sure you heard about that—the picture about the Titans. That's when they did something most unusual. They made Harold Boone, a black guy, the coach. They merged Hammond and T.C. Williams so that they would have but one team. And so Harold Boone, the black guy, was the coach. And they almost had a riot at that time. But it worked out. Two years the football was the champion in the State of Virginia. The movie the Titans [Remember the Titans] was based on all of this. I was there. In fact I was there in '70 and in '71 I was at Minnie Howard. The principals of the middle school would go to the football games at the high schools to help control the fans.
DC:	It kind of brought the community together?
Maudy Mays:	Oh yes, indeed.
Gilbert Mays:	No one was at fault. It turned out fine.
Maudy Mays:	They were happy to see Gilbert on board at T.C. And so all of the people from Dr. Albon, Superintendent, he had all of his staff from downtown to come to T.C. so they all be there to help the situation out. They stayed around there for a while and so they started saying, "I see no use of staying here. Things are moving all right. Let's go." So they left. What is the guy's name, the principal? And Dr. Oates.
Gilbert Mays:	Oates.
Maudy Mays:	Dr. Oates. It was all right.
DC:	You passed through that.
Maudy Mays:	T.C. was just fine. 'Cause that man Mr. T.C. we didn't know anything about him—T.C .Williams. People told us, "Whoa." They say he was a rough customer.
Gilbert Mays:	What they said really was he was a supreme racist. T.C. Williams was a racist. ... One lady who was at one of the other middle schools [inaudible] and her girl [inaudible]. Malpractice, I believe she was the head cook not because she sent her kids, she applied to send her kids, her girl said. And T.C. Williams High School is named after him. So he is still an immoral man, but the name T.C. Williams [inaudible]. Not just black and white people. To be associated with an aspect of misdeeds.
DC:	And it is too bad. It is off the topic, but too bad when they have a brand new school being built, just phase out the old name and put a new one up there.
Maudy Mays:	I thought about that. I wish I could have met Mr. T.C. Williams. I think I could have helped change his mind some. I worked with—--—sometimes they were brought up with parents and communities where they believe certain things and those things were instilled in them. But if you can get them to see that there are some black people who are very decent, very good, believe in doing the right thing, you can change their mind. They were brought up [inaudible]. Ann Burke in Richmond, she said, "Maudy, you aren't going to do anything to change Lucian Adams. Nothing in the world." I said, "No. He is all right." She said, "But you don't know anything about him." I said, "He is an individual. I can work with him. He is instruction. I am instructing their children and I am trying my very best to do the right thing." I had white children and black children. Basically they were black. In my first year they pulled me out and had me work with the supervisor, traveling with them throughout the city and working with teachers who needed help. All right, I worked with the black my first year.
Gilbert Mays:	One thing Maudy hadn't told you. She was teaching in Richmond. They promoted her to a supervisory job, big area and so forth. That's why they were telling her to...when she came here [to Alexandria]. She had background teaching and also working with teachers
DC:	And when you say working with teachers to...?
Maudy Mays:	To help them improve instruction in the classroom with the children. You know. When they come out of college, some of them had practice teaching and some didn't, some didn't take the right courses for elementary education and so on. So you had to get in there to find areas of weakness and help them to strengthen them. So, anyway, Ann Burke, back to Ann Burke, the Supervisor, she said, "Maudy I am just prejudiced as I can be." That was the second year they put me with Ann. And so she said, "I think we are going to get along all right." I said, "Oh Ann will be fine." So, anyway, I did and she was delightful. She was the best thing that ever happen to me.
DC:	She was a principal?
Maudy Mays:	No. she was a supervisor. A supervisor for years in Richmond. So, anyway, when we decided to move to Alexandria, lord she came to me crying, "Maudy don't move up there. Listen, Alexandria is a prejudiced [inaudible]." And she was right. She was right.
Gilbert Mays:	No, you don't want to go up there to T.C. Williams.
Maudy Mays:	And Alexandria had been like that for years. And she says, I know all about it. And then she knew all about T.C. Williams. So, anyway, she said, "You have done everything under the sun to help me move on. I understand integration. I understand integration, racist, prejudiceness," and she said, "You have turned me around."
DC:	That's wonderful. That was a project.
Maudy Mays:	Right. You are right. You see they see another side to life. Yea. And we didn't live too far from each other, but she was as nice as she could be. Pointed out areas she wanted me to work with teachers and she pointed out the right things to me. She wasn't trying to fool me.
DC:	Was Richmond more or less prejudiced than Alexandria?
Maudy Mays:	Yes. Oh yes. We had a delightful superintendent. Mr. Willis [?]. Delightful superintendent. Um huh. Yea. Indeed so. He said. "I am putting you in these classrooms to teach children. I want children to learn, regardless."
DC:	Why were we more prejudiced up here?
Gilbert Mays:	I think it was the superintendent. You have some people who may be prejudiced. But, unfortunately, at T.C. Williams it was forced [inaudible].
DC:	And the principal at the time was Otis?
Gilbert Mays:	Oates [?]. He came in the same as I did. What is the name of the principal here? Well, he couldn't handle the black white situation. So they hired Oates from Texas. He was from Texas.
Maudy Mays:	Oates from Texas. He couldn't handle the situation. Wonderful guy.
Gilbert Mays:	We didn't have a fight from football games
Maudy Mays:	Sure didn't. Each kid you know, pretty bad, just call him and talk to them. Sit down and talk to them. They would appreciate that. You could...
DC:	What percent of the school enrollment was African American?
Gilbert Mays:	Oh. Back then? It was 30%-40% black, the first year I was there. And at T.C. Williams. I don't know what it is now.
DC:	46% is what I read at T.C. Williams.
Maudy Mays:	46% Ah huh. In education I have gotten along just fine. I haven't had any problems with it. None whatsoever. I always in my classroom, and the ones I had to teach and work with, other than maybe teachers with a little attitude, but children no. I always had worked with the parents. I was able to accomplish everything.
Gilbert Mays:	I don't know how I got on so well with white principals. But I guess they looked back at my experience, you know. Working for the University of Virginia, working for the Virginia State Department of Education. When I came here and blacks began to join the white principal's association. They elected me the first black to be the President of the Secondary Principal's Association the State of Virginia. Most unusual. When I was with the State Department I went to all of the national meetings, board meetings and things like that, in the science area. National Supervisor Science Supervisor's Association, I was a charter member.
DC:	So Your primary background was in the sciences?
Gilbert Mays:	Yes. General science. I didn't major in physics or chemistry or biology. General science. St. Paul at the time didn't have a major in science, only general science.
Maudy Mays:	But you taught a lot of chemistry. You took chemistry courses and physics at the University of Virginia. Those are some rough courses.
Gilbert Mays:	The physics courses were tough. We had just started learning the reactor business again. We learned how the reactor worked from stem to stern.
DC:	Was this nuclear reaction?
Gilbert Mays:	Yeh. Nuclear reaction. Most of that stuff [inaudible]
DC:	How many years did you work for the State in Richmond?
Gilbert Mays:	Almost 13 years. 1958 to 1970.
Maudy Mays:	So he tells you his memory isn't good.
DC:	[Laughter] Yea. It is usually our short- term memory that is bad.
Gilbert Mays:	Suppose you asked me who the General of the Third Army. I couldn't think of it.
Maudy Mays:	Patton.
Gilbert Mays:	Isn't something I can't remember General Patton. He was a character. General Patton was a character. I was sorry he got killed after the war. A truck ran into the back of his.
Maudy Mays:	Didn't they bury him back in Europe?
Gilbert Mays:	Yea. Luxembourg. We went, Maudy and I took a trip, 16-day trip to Europe to visit all of those places left after the war. Battle of the Bulge, Germany, Nuremberg, Frankfort are some of the places we went to. But General Patton, they have a U.S. cemetery in Luxembourg, and General Patton is buried there. They have a big, big thing there.
Maudy Mays:	We went there.
DC:	Let me finish up the education part real quick. Given your experience, what are some of the [tape ends]...
Maudy Mays:	When did the improvements begin? Well that's because you were black and you would touch base with them and you got them to come on in, and they learned.
DC:	What group was this?
Gilbert Mays:	[inaudible] Principal's Association. I was the first President. The first black principal. That how the principal group integrated back then. In the same way, when I was with the Science Supervisor's Association. Things were changing. You didn't read a lot about it. But things were changing. Especially education.
DC:	When did you retire?
Maudy Mays:	Was it 1985?
Gilbert Mays:	1985.
DC:	And when did you retire?
Maudy Mays:	1983.
DC:	And you have enjoyed it?
Maudy Mays:	Oh yes, indeed. That's when we went to Europe.
DC:	That's when you visited the battlefields?
Gilbert Mays:	In the spring of 1985. We went to Europe in September.
DC:	That's when you visited the battlefields and cemeteries?
Maudy Mays:	Yeh. We went to five different countries, didn't we? That was with the AARP. It was delightful. I thought we would be with a black couple. They were Walkers from Georgia. So, they were white [laughter].
Gilbert Mays:	We were the only African American couple. But they were from all over the country. They were just as nice as they could be. Yeh.
Gilbert Mays:	We had a ball.
Maudy Mays:	Tell him about the last experience we had. Dinner at the Eiffel Tower.
Gilbert Mays:	But we had a fine dinner at the Eiffel Tower. We had some wine.
Maudy Mays:	I thought they were giving us all the wine they had. And the guys kept bring up more bottles that hadn't been opened. Just packing them on the table. So I just stood up and said, "Look, have some wine," and we put bottles everywhere. They were grabbing them and carrying them on.
Gilbert Mays:	We brought one bottle.

Daughter Wins Alexandria School Board Election
DC:	French wine? Well. Your daughter taught here and now she has been elected school board member.
Maudy Mays:	That's true.
DC:	And you must very proud of her?
Maudy Mays:	We are. Yes.
Gilbert Mays:	[Inaudible] fly off the shirt right now. I am so proud of her. [Laughter] I felt she would win. But I was really surprised she did win with the highest percent of the votes. I think she would have won with a higher percent of the vote if it had been system-wide. She had just moved over here at Cameron Station. She knew less people in that district than she did in DNA. The people knew her well.
Maudy Mays:	She won. She did not assign us to go to a precinct. So I just kept listening to her talk and she was talking, telling us what she wanted different ones to do. So she assigned her daddy to be her treasurer. She didn't assign me to do anything. So I just stood up and I was standing right here in the house and just listening and listening. "What do you want us to do?" "Well, Daddy is the treasurer." And I said, "Okay, fine. Anything else.?" "No." She ain't going to do me like this. I'll walk all over her. So I said, "Now, listen. You assign us to a precinct. And give us a heavy one. I don't care." I said, "You have to do it. Because I am going to one. And I am going to work all day long. I'll be there 6:00 in the morning. I am accustomed to working that way, because Gilbert and I worked with the polls." "Well, was it before retirement?" "After retirement. Gilbert was poll chief." She finally decided to assign us to Patrick Henry. We stayed all day. And I walked all around there and told those people to vote for Blanche Maness. I say, "You are voting for a born educator. Born with people in education," and I say, "She has been teaching, she is an educator and she has worked with your children, and may have worked with your own child." They say, "All right. I will go in there and will vote for her." And they come back and say, "You may take your paper back, I voted for your daughter." We stayed there all day.
DC:	[Laughter]
Maudy Mays:	I wish I had been down there at Tucker. That's where I wanted to go.
Gilbert Mays:	Didn't the new board elect her as vice-chair?
DC:	Yeh. Vice-chair.
Maudy Mays:	She had the nicest kickoff. All she did. The boy you saw walking through here, gave the first speech. I wish you could have been there.
DC:	You probably wish you had recorded it. Play it back to the young boy later.
Maudy Mays:	He was so, so good. Putting the emphasis on everything. He was so good. He was terrific. I was surprised. He told his Mama, "You are not going to write my speech. This is my speech. I am going to write it." He is a third-grader. He is going to the fourth. "I am going to write my own speech." And so he said she looked at one or two words and then at the end (we called her Cookie, that was her little nickname), and so he, shaking his hand, "Now, Cookie, you have to do so and so," and he was just going. The people gave him a standing ovation.
DC:	He enjoys playing to a crowd.
Maudy Mays:	Yes, indeed. So we had a good time with him. And then her little closing one, at the end, her party she had for all of the workers, just like that. Some of those who got on the board came. Those Republicans who were in seat, everyone of them came. She had a caterer. I wish she had been A or B. One lady told her in B, "I couldn't vote for you, but I wrote your name in anyway. Do anything you want to do with it."
DC:	That's a wonderful thought. Is she your only child? Gil calls her my little girl.
Maudy Mays:	Yes. Yes. Our only one. Gilbert calls her my little girl.
DC:	Well you look a lot alike.
Maudy Mays:	Well thank you.
DC:	We will finish with one last question. This is for students who want to learn more about earlier history. I am always hoping that a person doing graduate work will become more familiar with what it was like near Edgerton. So what advise would you give to students today?
Gilbert Mays:	I would say, offhand, A good education can't be substituted. Parents must start educating their children so they can learn…[End of In-Person Interview]

The following is a transcript of Gilbert Mays' written account of an experience while he was serving in the U.S. Army just prior to World War II.

Gilbert's Army Experience
DC:	Did you serve in the military during World War II?
Gilbert Mays:	Yes. I volunteered and entered the Army on August 19, 1920 [1940 more likely] in Richmond, Virginia. I was assigned to Company A, 48th Quartermaster Regiment, located at Camp Holabird in Baltimore, Md.
DC:	How long did you stay in the Service?
Gilbert Mays:	I was in the service for five years, 1940 to 1945. During my five years in the Service I was in England, France, Belgium, and Germany with the Third Army under General George Patton.
DC:	Is there any significant assignment you had or some activity you are fond of and significant in your military experience?
Gilbert Mays:	Yes. One assignment in particular was being assigned as a test driver to test the prototype for the Army Jeep during the early forties. Two fellow soldiers, Charles Barnett and James Halls, and I were the test drivers. The engineers in charge of the project were from the Checker Cab Company. The three of us were on 8-hour shifts, 24 hours per day. On completion of the testing and when the engineers had what they considered a ready vehicle, the newsreel company were called in to take pictures of the new vehicle. (The newsreel company produced short news items played in theaters before the feature movie.) This presented a problem for the newsreel people because the test drivers were African Americans and they said they could not show that in white theaters in this country. They compromised the situation by getting three white soldiers from Company E, 23rd Quartermaster, located at Camp Holabird to drive for the cameras and us. They showed the test pictures of the white soldiers in the white theaters and us blacks in the black theaters. I consider my experience in the project a highlight of my military career. Look what the Jeep is now!!!

End of Interview